tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3249541406364691686.post8118360802225696626..comments2023-09-15T05:54:48.691-07:00Comments on SERIAL GANKER: On Specializationssid67http://www.blogger.com/profile/16656756657483499337noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3249541406364691686.post-6336407233936500032010-03-30T21:10:22.257-07:002010-03-30T21:10:22.257-07:00I understand now, Gandalf was a paladin/mage/warri...I understand now, Gandalf was a paladin/mage/warrior, to do that he had to give up healing!<br /><br />In seriousness, even if someone is a master of everything it doesn't mean they will be doing everything at any one time, and the amount of time it took them to be a master of everything could depends very much on the game you're playing. I'm not so concerned if someone can do everything if it took them 7 years of skilling up to do it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3249541406364691686.post-74828265697319739992010-03-30T12:44:18.248-07:002010-03-30T12:44:18.248-07:00If I may offer my own bit of armchair design: The ...If I may offer my own bit of armchair design: The tank, heal, and DPS are roles that naturally emerge because of the underlying system that's central to most MMO's combat: Damage management. The tank prevents the incoming damage from triggering a loss in the short term, the healer prevents the incoming damage from accumulating enough to trigger a loss in the long term, and the dps neutralizes the sources of the damage.<br /><br />If you want meaningful change, you have to change the nature of the underlying system- coming up with something that has more depth. I'm not about to write out a design document here, so I'll just say that I think the game which currently does the best job of addressing this fundamental design issue is actually Resident Evil 4.Dagda (Brooks Harrel)https://www.blogger.com/profile/12719198062375441018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3249541406364691686.post-50307515663927574412010-03-30T10:31:23.715-07:002010-03-30T10:31:23.715-07:00I think the current issue with the DF specializati...I think the current issue with the DF specialization system is that it's not finished (or even close), and so the choices are limited and you either end up with extremes that limit you(destroyer) or mini-benefits that still allow full access. I think ultimately once the system is fleshed out (DF2010 hopefully...) the choices won't be so simple and more unique roles will be established.<br /><br />A fire spec that limits other magic, a buff spec that limits melee, archery buffs that impose stat hits, stuff like that. Combined with more specialized armor (what shade and bloodcraft are now, but again more fleshed out), and again you get more choices.<br /><br />What is nice however is that the choices are not permanent, and this allows people who have capped archery to switch to magic and have another area to develop, while at the same time it allows a new player to hyper-focus archery and catch up (in that area) quickly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3249541406364691686.post-10908835493607564542010-03-30T06:10:47.571-07:002010-03-30T06:10:47.571-07:00What about the secondary roles of crowd control, b...What about the secondary roles of crowd control, buffs, debuffs, and pets? Typically they have been tied into various other roles, but if they were on their own separate tree you could pick both a main and secondary role.Jessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17419441414045755394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3249541406364691686.post-61772894960640972912010-03-29T22:37:50.541-07:002010-03-29T22:37:50.541-07:00The cutting edge guilds all ditch their tanks and ...<i>The cutting edge guilds all ditch their tanks and healers and replace them with new and better versions who didn't spend points in dps.</i><br /><br />I recognize that's a possibility. That's why I say semi-permanent choices. Make it reasonably possible to change, but not without some associated cost.<br /><br />The 'how' of that change can be any number of things. Unlearning/Relearning, free respec once every X days (30/60/90). I'm not really advocating that we pigeon hole people into one thing forever.<br /><br />I'm simply advocating that no character should be able to fulfill all roles. That decisions, once made, have some weight and importance.sid67https://www.blogger.com/profile/16656756657483499337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3249541406364691686.post-34827846702712137812010-03-29T21:29:45.606-07:002010-03-29T21:29:45.606-07:00Picture this: month one of your new MMO and player...Picture this: month one of your new MMO and players race up to end game all soloing quests for max exp efficiency with dps heavy builds.<br /><br />They get to end game and they have some guys with a few points in tanking and healing and start clearing content.<br /><br />Next thing the tortoises with tank heavy or healer heavy builds finally max out their characters and become available.<br /><br />The cutting edge guilds all ditch their tanks and healers and replace them with new and better versions who didn't spend points in dps.<br /><br />Or you can have respecs in which case everyone levels as dps then changes to healer/tank/dps at end game and there really isn't much choice. All healers have the same talents as any other healer. Same for tanks etc.<br /><br />If you don't allow respecs then you have built a system which will shunt some players in a corner where their only option is to bitch and moan on your forums (cf dps paladins in WoW circa 2007). The gloom despondency and negativity these players spread will cause your game to hemorrhage players. And of course if you give in to them (as many developers have done) you teach your player base to manipulate game development by whining on the forums.<br /><br />It's a lot easier from the armchair than it is in practice (I say from my armchair!).Stabshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08716211705647213383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3249541406364691686.post-19429206683231958212010-03-29T20:46:48.962-07:002010-03-29T20:46:48.962-07:00I don't really care if people have alts. If th...I don't really care if people have alts. If they want to take the time to create multiple characters, more power to them.<br /><br />However, one character <i>shouldn't</i> be able to do everything. It makes the choices we make to develop that character meaningless.<br /><br />Choosing a role should mean that you sacrifice your ability to do something else. <br /><br />I'll freely leave the choice up to you, but I'd like to see some trade offs for people making decisions. <br /><br />Otherwise, you end up with this weird thing where you put away your 2-handed sword in the middle of a fight to cast some spells with your staff. WTF is that?<br /><br />On a separate note, dual-spec is a dubious design choice at best and a great example of a developer caving to forum pressure from a few classes. <br /><br />It greatly benefited some classes who had previously needed to make sacrifices to excel in certain areas. While for other classes, there is little to no benefit outside of what flavor of DPS.<br /><br />When you consider that players fight for raid positions, a Warrior who can DPS or Tank is more valuable than a Rogue. Likewise, a Druid who can DPS, Tank or Heal, is more valuable than a Mage. <br /><br />Where is the tradeoff?<br /><br />I mean, if that's the direction that you are going go, what's the point in having a class?sid67https://www.blogger.com/profile/16656756657483499337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3249541406364691686.post-82889469508806182262010-03-29T20:35:35.545-07:002010-03-29T20:35:35.545-07:00It should be noted that Eve also uses a skill syst...It should be noted that Eve also uses a skill system with diminishing returns. Training a skill to level 5 takes longer than training that skill from level 0 to 4, sometimes even an order of magnitude longer. Thus a newbie can be almost as good as the veteran in a specific field very quickly. And because a true master of all trades takes 28 years to train, there's always going to be some hard choices.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00178860601734528122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3249541406364691686.post-34503646563522935582010-03-29T19:56:20.446-07:002010-03-29T19:56:20.446-07:00The thing about permanent or semi-permanent choice...The thing about permanent or semi-permanent choices is that they're not really that permanent in a game where you can have multiple characters.<br /><br />Like in a traditional class-based "holy trinity" fantasy MMO, your choice of class limits the roles you can fill - well, usually, anyway, of course there are classes like WoW's druids that can do everything!<br /><br />But leave aside the druid, if I want to be able to tank, and heal, and dps (ranged and melee!), I could just level a warrior and a priest, dual-spec them both, and there I am.<br /><br />So I lean more towards the design where it is assumed that players with significant enough playtime to spend will eventually be able to do everything, so why not let them do it all on one character? You put mechanics in place so they can't do everything <b>all at once</b> and be overpowered (respeccing requirements, game rules like "can't cast spells in platemail", systemic things like only being able to fly one spaceship at a time in EVE, etc.), but then let them have at it. They'll just relog onto an alt if you don't.Carson 63000https://www.blogger.com/profile/10900682924502279486noreply@blogger.com