tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3249541406364691686.post5079458154833831210..comments2023-09-15T05:54:48.691-07:00Comments on SERIAL GANKER: No one likes grind.sid67http://www.blogger.com/profile/16656756657483499337noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3249541406364691686.post-12388778537204794922010-07-15T12:45:31.822-07:002010-07-15T12:45:31.822-07:00Great article and comments, guys. I come firmly d...Great article and comments, guys. I come firmly down on the side of playing the game rather than running the treadmill, and when a game feels grindy, I'll stop. Pavlovian conditioning doesn't work on me for long, and there are too many good games out there to try to get stuck on the treadmill.<br /><br />I wholeheartedly agree that time sinks are abominable. Unfortunately, they exist in a vicious feedback loop with the subscription model. As they feed on each other, we're not likely to see much real will to change that. It will be interesting to see how grindy Guild Wars 2 winds up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3249541406364691686.post-65566328384193917182010-07-15T08:40:09.239-07:002010-07-15T08:40:09.239-07:00Interesting. That suggests that everything is just...<i>Interesting. That suggests that everything is just play until players value the end result more than the process.</i><br /><br />I would agree with that observation and add a bit to it. The less exciting or interesting the game play is, the less players will value it. It's that valuation, when compared to the reward, that makes it feel burdensome and tedious.<br /><br />And more than that, it's about value over time because your valuation of the gameplay decreases the longer you are exposed to it.<br /><br />After all, even raiding can start as a blast and then feel like a grind after the 10th, 15th, or 30th time you have killed a specific boss for a piece of gear. And that's the best gameplay that WoW has to offer.<br /><br />To reiterate what I was saying in the post, that's why "time consuming" is the worst kind of challenge. Because it can turn enjoyable gameplay into total crap due to overexposure.sid67https://www.blogger.com/profile/16656756657483499337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3249541406364691686.post-67153532044541441202010-07-15T07:51:46.365-07:002010-07-15T07:51:46.365-07:00Interesting. That suggests that everything is just...Interesting. That suggests that everything is just play until players value the end result more than the process. Therefore grind is a result of attaching points values to gameplay. Which attracts those who are just doing it for the points.<br /><br />I must say I think WoW is proof of concept of the attractiveness of points. Even achievement points which are useless motivate people to accumulate them.Stabshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08716211705647213383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3249541406364691686.post-6281102790533973712010-07-14T16:40:58.429-07:002010-07-14T16:40:58.429-07:00Is a grind that tricks you into thinking it's ...Is a grind that tricks you into thinking it's not a grind still a grind?<br /><br />No. To Stabs point above, I don't think it is... After all, if YOU don't find it boring or tedious, it's not really a grind from your perspective.<br /><br />This is where I think Daily Quests fall in WoW. They <i>can</i> be a a grind, but <i>can</i> also be compelling enough to offer some decent gameplay. But would you do them if there were no faction or gold reward? Likely not.<br /><br />By contrast, BGs would likely have PvP-minded players even if there was no reward. Would they have as many as they do today? No. And that's one reason why I think BGs fail so miserably in WoW. It's a group activity where 50% (or more) of the people playing in it feel like it's a grind. Which, in turn, is unfair to the players who WANT that style of play.sid67https://www.blogger.com/profile/16656756657483499337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3249541406364691686.post-16462216349073062042010-07-14T16:26:04.366-07:002010-07-14T16:26:04.366-07:00I have to disagree, partially. Not all grinds are...I have to disagree, partially. Not all grinds are the same. Some are painful, such as working up gear in BGs. Some are just repetitive and varying degrees of tedious, such as random heroics.<br /><br />Personally I don't mind gathering grinds too much. They are relaxing if I'm in the right mindset, that mindset being "relax, there's no rush, just take it easy." It's mindless and requires minimal interaction, but sometimes I think that's a good think. It's the MMO equivalent of those ocean sounds CDs, or maybe techno.Klepsacovichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07915576683657376929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3249541406364691686.post-21240994484153393882010-07-14T16:21:13.818-07:002010-07-14T16:21:13.818-07:00It's a semantic thing. For me I enjoyed leveli...It's a semantic thing. For me I enjoyed leveling in WoW probably more than being max level. Soloing group quests, planning to optimise the fedexing, and checking Who to see who was winning really appealed to me.<br /><br />Because I liked it it wasn't grind. To someone else it may have been grind - that's their loss.<br /><br />Certain things can be taken either way. I pvped quite a lot before they brought Honour in just for fun. Afterwards sometimes I played for fun and sometimes I put my head down and accumulated points. The accumulation of points was in and of itself fun gameplay as was upgrading into new purples and gradually beginning to kick butt as my resilience rose. But did I like WSG in blues at the start? No. Was it a grind? Yeah, probably.Stabshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08716211705647213383noreply@blogger.com